you see mlb and nfl and the leagues producing a ton of content. the next frontier is how to take that digital relationship to a deeper level. >> what's interesting to me is we heard about your relationship with the packers. i know of other former colleagues of yours with other relationships with other sports teams that are doing this. the devils experiment two years ago, i remember talking to mike, devils have since changed hands, but it did increase ticket -- for some places, they had a single game ticket issue. and they were trying to get that because hockey's so expensive. the impact of this is pretty fast. because there's little know-how, is that fair to say? >> i think it's interesting that people who care so much about, like, the number of people showing up for the game in aggregate and they have a sense of all those numbers of season ticket holders don't have a great sense of the individual person. >> they don't know who the people are. >> right. having a more finely segmented strategy as the devils go down that road and understanding that,